Am I there yet ? Journey to Wellness
Musings of one spunky creative soul on a personal journey of BECOMING her very Irie self - and LIVING HER ITAL LIFE
ITAL | Pronounced " EYE-TAL - Jamaican word meaning "Pure, Authentic, Vital , Uncontaminated.
Started as therapy , Switching to Wellness and Nutrition
Chef Lorraine Nutrition and Wellness Coach
www.theitallifestyle.com
IG | @theitallifestyle
Am I there yet ? Journey to Wellness
Navigating Bipolar Disorder Through Alternative Means
What happens when you abandon conventional medication for a more holistic approach to mental health? Tara from Brooklyn shares her eye-opening journey with bipolar disorder, highlighting the challenges and triumphs of navigating life without pharmaceutical intervention. Listen as we explore the invisible nature of health struggles and uncover the transformative power of kindness, alongside the crucial roles that spirituality, career, and relationships play in maintaining mental wellness.
Growing up in a household that shied away from mental health discussions, she recount her own battles with depression and anxiety from a young age. The road to understanding bipolar disorder was paved with trial and error, and it took years to find the right therapist and medication. Yet, it was the integration of alternative practices, like traditional Chinese medicine and massage therapy, that truly shifted her perspective. Discover the resilience found in listening to one's body and the importance of holistic practices in achieving mental clarity.
Journey with us as we delve into the realm of nutrition and substances like cannabis, discussing their roles in mental health management. Our conversation sheds light on the empowering process of weaning off medication with the support of diet, therapy, and mindful reflection. Tara and I challenge the norm, illustrating how moderation, self-awareness, and personal choice can redefine your relationship with mental health. Join us in creating a space where shared experiences foster hope and healing for those on similar paths.
https://www.instagram.com/theitallifestyle/
https://www.theitallifestyle.com
http://www.instagram.com/italretreat_turksandcaicos
connect with chef at any of the links above :-)
When I hear a part of my story, I try to hide in the glory and spit under the table so you would never know. Sometimes I feel like an accident. People look on their path and I never check on the passenger. They just want the free show. Yeah, I'm constantly trying to fight something that my eyes can't see. My mind and me we don't get along sometimes and it gets hard to breathe, but I wouldn't change my life and all of the crushing and burning and breaking. I know now If somebody sees me like this Then they won't feel alone now, hello, hello, my peeps.
Speaker 2:It's a rainy, rainy Tuesday morning and that is the best time to do a podcast, because there's nothing else to do. Well, if you have to go to your 9 to 5, I get it, but for someone like me who works from home, who have my private practice, who you know that's one of the perks.
Speaker 2:Mind you, I do work 80 hours a week, but that's the perk is I can do something like this on a rainy morning and I hope you like my song. Selena gomez is my mind and me. I've always loved that song and it's really in the mood of today's discussion. I have my beautiful friends visiting Hi, and you know, october was Mental Health Awareness Month and I didn't do a podcast for that. I did plan one and I recorded it, but I didn't release it and I think there was a reason behind that.
Speaker 2:Because here comes this conversation that I think is going to be so helpful, so so helpful, not just because October was Mental Health Awareness Month, but you know, I am in my 50s now and they do say if you have any episodes of depression in your life when you hit men menopause, this is so easy to get triggered and to sink into depression and, if I'm honest, the last few months have been really kind of weird, to say, to put it mildly for me.
Speaker 2:But because of the work that I do, I know my triggers, I can feel it coming on. I'm okay, this is happening. Let me go do a workout, let me go for a walk, let me play music, and so this is the episode where we're going to be discussing things related to our mind, our emotions, and you know it has so much to do. You know I'm I'm into nutrition and I was just talking about primary foods and secondary foods and in that terminology, in the wellness world, primary foods relate to our life, or joys or spirituality, or job or careers, and all those things do play a part in our mental health.
Speaker 2:And that's our primary food and then the secondary food. Secondary food are the things we eat every day. You know, the healthiest stuff, the unhealthiest of the processed foods, the unprocessed foods. You know we'll talk about that another day, not today, not today.
Speaker 2:Today we're sticking to primer foods and mainly our emotional mind or well everything, because mental health it, it touches all of our lives, or spirituality or job, or careers or relationships, everything. So we're in real primary food territory so I'm gonna let my friend introduce herself in a way that she whatever she wants to tell you about herself if she doesn't want to tell you her name, she doesn't have to tell your name. Mind your own business.
Speaker 3:So I love the uh, the caveat there. Um, my name is Tara. I'm from Brooklyn, new York Shout out Brooklyn and I have journeyed to Turks and Caicos, to this beautiful land of Lorraine's.
Speaker 2:She's at Eitel Retreat TCI.
Speaker 3:Yes, the most beautiful place to go and to truly retreat from whatever your woes are or if you just need to rejuvenate, for whatever reason. Yeah, I've been on my mental health journey for I don't know, I guess my whole life, but probably seriously, the last 10 years, yeah, and I'm just so grateful to be here and talking to Lorraine and all of you about what I've learned and what I have yet to learn.
Speaker 2:So while we were here, you know, tara shared with me about the fact that and that she was diagnosed with bipolar, that she was diagnosed with bipolar, and I would never have guessed it, and that started a conversation about her journey living with bipolar and I noticed I did not say the word disease because it's just a living condition.
Speaker 2:It is what it is, and she is amazing and stunning and beautiful and brilliant, and so it reminded me of the fact that we really don't know people just by looking at them. Health is such a sometimes an invisible situation and that you know, I always stress, you know I'm always talking about just be kind, be kind, just be kind, just be a kind human. It's so important. It goes a long way. And I say kind, not good and not nice, because nice people and good people, uh no, you can be nice and be a horrible person because you're just nice for the show, and you can be good but not kind, and so that's. I always stress about kindness.
Speaker 2:But tara shared with me about the fact that she made a decision to to relieve herself from pharmaceutical medication and I'm meeting her in this in a state where she is non-medicated, and so we I wanted to talk to her about what that journey was like, what went into making that decision, where did you go for the?
Speaker 2:Where did you go, what was the process, what was the experience like and how is life after? So I'm going to turn it over to Tara for a little bit and let her share her story. We're going to hold space for her and I know this conversation is going to help someone, as that's what we're here to do. We exist in the world to share our gifts, and our gifts could be our life experiences that could help someone heal, and so that's what Tara is going to do for us. I'm sure I'm going to learn so much from it as well, in a not just as a practitioner, but also as someone who struggles with mental health issues every now and again. You know it's a constant process and we just have to work at it. So, without much delay, my friend Tara is gonna take it from here oh, what a beautiful, beautiful segue.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, I started, I I guess, taking from the beginning. I started experiencing, you know, depression, anxiety, anger, a lot, a lot of anger. Uh, when I was about 12 years old. Um, I was pretty young, it's right when you get through puberty, so it makes a lot of sense. Um, the world was changing, uh, I was changing, and I was not best suited at that time to take care of myself, as a lot of 12 year olds are not, and so I started acting out a lot.
Speaker 3:I was not, you know, the best child to my mother, I think at that time. But you know, I think I was trying to cope and get through those emotions without the best mechanisms in front of me. And so I didn't really start treating my mental health issues until I was in high school. I'm from a family, I'm from an Irish family. We do not, or at least historically we do not, uh, talk about our mental health very much.
Speaker 2:We are strong because we are strong as a, as a as a chocolate woman myself. What is with that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh yeah, we are resilient. We can do it ourselves. Um, we'll get over. It is just you know um. You know, someone else has suffered worse someone else, and we've all conquered that. Right so yeah, we didn't really talk about it in my family and so I did not feel at the time that I would get support from my family, so I have been a babysitter my entire life. I was always babysitting kids and that's how I made an income from a really young age.
Speaker 3:So I was able to afford a therapist out of pocket. Whoa, yeah, because I was scared that the insurance would show up on my healthcare account that my mom obviously had in her name and then my family would know I was going to therapy healthcare account that my mom obviously had in her name and then my family would know I was going to therapy. So, yeah, I started by going to this therapist. Uh, I was thinking I was like 16 or 17. She was like 150 bucks for a session, which is crazy. Uh, it's very normal now, but it was crazy. Then it was just like the best solution I had. I thought, and I actually had a really terrible time. She forgot everything I told her the second time I went in. It was like the first time I had really opened up and been honest about a lot of things. I was feeling, um, yeah, it was a really bad experience for my first time.
Speaker 3:um, and that stunted me a bit um, um, because I was just, you know, I was young, I was like this is it, this is what therapy is. I, you know, I didn't know that she had really bad reviews on the internet, right, I didn't know how to do that research.
Speaker 3:So that was kind of my whole world. When it came to therapy, I was like, okay, this is not the solution. I'm just going to go back to taking care of myself Like I. Go back to taking care of myself like I, maybe I don't need this, maybe this isn't the way, um, and so I attempted to do that for several more years, um until I was in college.
Speaker 3:My freshman year of college, I had a really, really hard time, um. And then I ended up transferring to a new school, my sophomore year, um, which was great, because freshman year was definitely not. Uh and there they had free, like college counseling um which again didn't go through insurance.
Speaker 3:So again I was like, okay, I can get healthcare from like a licensed, like someone who's real, someone who knows what they're doing, but also, it won't, you know, there'll be no evidence of it. Um, and that is where I met an amazing therapist who truly did, uh, change my life in a lot of ways and really started me on my journey. Um, and it was that year I think it was about 20 at that point that I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Um, and I started medication. Um, and that the way I was diagnosed was through trial and error, by medication.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, my goodness, yeah, I don't know if this is. You know truly what should be happening. But, yeah, they put me. They were like, okay, you have depression, they put me on medication for that, and then that didn't really work and they tried a few other ones, and then they put me on I think it was like Prozac, and they were like my reaction to Prozac was so bad, um, that made me worse. And I go, oh, that must mean that you're bipolar and therefore you need mood stabilizer. And that's how they they diagnosed me. I mean, of course, it was like on top of like other symptoms, I suppose.
Speaker 1:Um, I do you know, I think I agree with that diagnosis, um, or whatever that means for a group of symptoms. Anyway, that's how they diagnosed me and that's how they put me on mood stabilizers.
Speaker 3:And for eight years I was on a concoction of mood stabilizers and anti psychotics which they often kind of couple with the mood stabilizer for whatever scientific reason they they have. And it was, it was good. Uh, it was. You know, it was important for me to do that.
Speaker 3:Uh, definitely, during those points in my life where I couldn't support myself in other ways, I didn't have the emotional bandwidth or someone just like I mean I was younger, I wasn't able to be independent in a lot of the ways, I wasn't able to make decisions all the time, that were, you know, solely based on what I needed. And I and I just I mean I also was doing therapy throughout that whole thing, off and on, and that was incredibly helpful to me to kind of realize, reflect on and know myself a bit better so that I can make decisions for myself as I aged and became a real human, make decisions for myself as I aged and became a real human. Um, and you know I still had ups and downs, um, that that's, you know, par for the course. And I, again, I do think being on medication was incredibly important, um, for my journey, for a lot of people's journeys, um, but I, um, but I I've always said I think it was like may 2023, so over a year ago now, almost two.
Speaker 3:Uh, I had like the worst down I'd had in a really, really long time. I ended up having to go on fmla right, which is where you take like a break from it's a it's a us law that, where you take a break from the US law, that you can take a break from your job for about two to three months If you're experiencing mental health illness. You can also do it if, like you have a sick family member or something it's called the.
Speaker 3:Family Medical Leave Act. It's a great opportunity. It's not paid all the time. I'm almost positive mine was not paid. Paid all the time. I'm almost positive mine was not paid. Um, sometimes it can be, but, um, I was able to, you know, take two months off without fear of losing my job. Like they wouldn't be able to you know, uh, fire me as a result of that. So I did. My boss was amazing during the time. Oh my God, marta, we love her. Um, and she was super supportive the whole time.
Speaker 3:I was working at Housing Works, which is a health clinic organization advocacy group that helps folks, oh, okay that's great yeah and they help folks with mental health issues and just it's a healthcare clinic so they do everything but focusing on LGBTQ folks and underinsured folks. So that was great that, like I was in that kind of work environment, I was super supportive. My boss is amazing. So, yes, I took those two months off.
Speaker 3:Um but, yeah, it really wasn't getting better until, honestly, I I was also, you know, trying to figure out what next cause this just wasn't working, what, what I was doing in my life wasn't working, um, and so I really felt most, most. A lot of my family lives in Ireland. I have traveled to Ireland for every year almost my entire life um, and I've been. I love traveling. I love the idea of being independent. I travel alone a lot, um.
Speaker 3:I've done a lot of solo trips, um, and it brings me a lot of joy and stability to be independent in that way and knowing that if things hit the fan, like I have to rely on myself, yeah, um, and so I was really having this itching to go abroad to live somewhere else on my own, um, and I was applying to jobs and a lot of the jobs I was looking at really needed a master's degree. So I was like, ok, maybe I can couple these two things. And I applied to go to school at the University College London and it was in what? June I found out that I got in.
Speaker 1:So, although I was like, or maybe July. And although I was like, or maybe July, so it was like I was in the worst part of my life but there was this, like you know, shining light that was coming in Something was functioning.
Speaker 3:Yes, your emotional and your mental was low, but your career and that was, the opportunities were there and it was just something to hope for. And a lot of the time, I think, through my mental health journey, like I have always, you know, tried to have something to hope for, something in the future that I plan for, so that there's always again that thing like okay, well, at least I'm, you know, and a lot of it has been travel, because travel brings me so much joy and um and everything. So this was yeah a beautiful coupling of that Um, and things were definitely.
Speaker 3:You know, at least I had that hope again, which I really was hopeless for for quite a quite a while at that point, um, which was always the scariest part of mental illness, right?
Speaker 1:That's when.
Speaker 3:That's when the alarm bells ring and you're like okay, well, let's, let's figure this one out, um, because without hope you're not doing well. Um, and oh yeah, and at that point, like I think it was like june, they also put me on um an anti-anxiety. So I was on those three meds I was on anti-anxiety, a mood stabilizer and an antipsychotic. And because of all this, lorraine, I almost missed the most important part. My body was starting to like deteriorate.
Speaker 3:So I had gained a lot of weight which I had never had weight on me my whole life. I just am very much genetically blessed in that way and I was always active and I was always always like a kid playing soccer and stuff, um and so like, really the first time in my life I had, like you know, 50 pounds on me, um, which feels like a lot when you're holding that um, and you know, I mean ego and self-esteem and everything right when that goes down, yeah, yeah it's just you really have to re.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's stupid.
Speaker 3:It's the world we live in, but it's real um and it really, um, affected how I saw myself and how other people people do treat you different and they do it's. It's a weird feeling, um, and so it had a lot of weight on me. And then also my gosh was very funny. One day I was sitting next to my mom on the couch. She's just like on the other side of the couch and she screams and she's looking at me and she's screaming and I think there's like a bug on me or like something's great, the crawling all over me. I'm like, oh my god, get it off, get it off. She grabs my hair and she's like, looking through my hair, I'm like, oh my god, there's something in my hair. And she's like, oh my god, what is this? And she's found a bald spot that's like bigger than a quarter in my hair that like somehow none of us realized before this moment.
Speaker 3:Of course, it's going to be your mom to realize you have a bald spot, um, and you know it was scary. It was scary because it's like what would cause that why? Would that be happening? Um, I don't know. You start going to all the crazy things.
Speaker 3:It could be right, um, and so I go to a doctor and that's when I find out I have hypothyroidism so my thyroid is basically just like clunked out, um, and I had to start a thyroid medication. Oh yeah, yeah, so that that was like a whole thing, and the thyroid med did help. Um, I didn't really lose any of the weight, but my hair did grow back.
Speaker 3:Thank, god um and I Now fast forward, so I'm on those three meds for my brain, but then I also am on a thyroid med for my body, and let me tell you when this happened. You know we love Google, we love WebMD right, so I'm.
Speaker 3:Googling, I'm like, oh my God, what could this be? Like no one else in my family has this, but all the doctors are saying you're a woman. So many women have this. Because I'm like when, when I google it, there's a few articles that are like, oh um, lithium, which is one of the mood stabilizers I was on, it could cause this, um, but then I said that to my doctors. I was like, is there any way this could be a result of my medication? They're like no, that's so rare. That's definitely not it.
Speaker 2:It's because you're a woman oh, the curse of curse of being a woman. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. They're like does anyone in your family have it? I was like no, they're like I don't know. And I was like, okay, oh, this doesn't feel right, but they're doctors. Who am I? Just a feeble woman? So I am just going to take this man and continue my life, um, so that's how I leave the country. Uh, that's how I leave. Uh, this is about, yeah, you know, a little over a year ago now, um and I land in London, um, and I did have some family in London, um, I had an aunt and a cousin who lived there, uh, who was pretty close with growing up, um, so I was able to stay there off and on, um, but it was very much, you know, you know, supporting myself, living off my savings, um, and going to school, which was always a bit of a trigger for me, um, but I, you know, more than anything, I just felt, I felt happy that I left the anxiety definitely reduced.
Speaker 3:Like I stopped grinding my teeth as much I just. I mean, I used to grind. I'm already grinding back to being in the United States for like a few days um, you know, just like little things.
Speaker 3:It was getting better. Um, and then I, you know, I had other issues happening, like acid reflux was like really a big problem which again never had before, like the last year. And then I had oh my god, I forgot it's called it's called like pill dysphagia or something. It's basically when you take pills it's really hard to swallow. Oh my like it's incredibly difficult.
Speaker 2:The body was telling you oh yeah, enough oh yeah, oh yeah, my body said we're done yeah your body, your body was screaming out to you oh yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think I finally was in a place where I could hear it Right. And so, and it's you know and I do not recommend this to you. Know the listener, who, who doesn't have? All the things that I had in place during this time the listener, who doesn't have all the things that I had in place during this time. But I would listen to my body and I did slowly because it was physically almost impossible to swallow. I slowly stopped taking my meds which again not not good for generally speaking?
Speaker 3:But, at the same time I started seeing. It was actually quite random, but I went in for a massage I've always used massage as a form of self-care and retreat and I there was a masseuse in the area who actually ended up being a traditional Chinese medical healer that I just randomly signed up for Like I just kind of like hole in the wall situation I go in and I did not. I kept just going for like six months. I mean, these people changed my life.
Speaker 1:And this is where you know.
Speaker 2:Traditional medicine, traditional, yes, holistic treatment of your body.
Speaker 3:Oh, yes, and they were the ones also who were encouraging. You know they're like you should stop taking these medications, like we will. You know, take ownership of that, we will make sure you know. They gave me herbs to help the transition. Um, and they we did intense, very painful, intense, uh massage therapy for twice a week for about six months. Um, and that, like, coupled with coming off the meds completely, um, truly.
Speaker 3:I think was like the last thing I needed to do for for now, right In my healing journey. Every day, you have to continue to reflect and see what you need. But in terms of being able to come off my meds and be, you know, resilient with the tools in front of me and not pharmaceuticals. That was kind of the last thing I needed to do. Yeah, it was amazing. I you know it wasn't easy. Nothing is easy and still there are days.
Speaker 3:you know you make it sound easy, but no it's not, it was not, it was not and it was probably not fun, no, no, there are so many days where, you know, I mean, I was traveling a lot of it alone, you know, in different places, where sometimes I didn't speak the language and it was lonely, and I was on time zones where I couldn't even call my friends because they'd be asleep when I was awake, and vice versa. And you know, you just, I had to learn a lot of things, um, and the first one being, um, routine and discipline.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that is what kills us.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, routine and discipline. Oh yeah, cause, trust me, like lately I've been like I'm going to, I'm going to get up every morning. I'm going to go on the elliptical, then do some weight training just because at this age you're supposed to build muscle. You don't need to do a lot of cardio, but you need to build muscle and I'm telling you honestly, sometimes if I get four days in, it's good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah and you gotta own that.
Speaker 2:You have to celebrate that as well if you get four days in and then there are weeks when I don't get any days in, like, yeah, for the last seven days I've got no days in. Yeah, the most I've done is my tapping yeah in my, at my meridians, okay to do to help with lymphatic drainage but self-care and discipline is so important, which is hard if you are going through a mental health drought yeah, if you're in a situation where your mood is low and thing, it's hard to have that focus and discipline.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's only when you, after you've been working on yourself yourself some a bit, and you're able to see the triggers and see the sign there, you go like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no. Why am I doing this, why am I doing that? And you, you start to do things that you know will help yeah but routine and discipline yeah, no, they're so important.
Speaker 3:They're so important and you, I don't think I was ever good at them before the last year, to be honest. I mean I. I mean I even things like you know and also like deep reflection, right, and like really holding space for reflection and checking in with your body, right. So for a long time, noticing my depression was always easy, I feel like, for me anyway, right, it was like okay, you know.
Speaker 3:I'm seeping into hopelessness. Right, I don't have a lot of energy. I'm feeling really sensitive. You know all these things I was like okay, I'm definitely on the verge of being depressed, or I'm fully there. Um, that was always simple for me, but the mania was always really, really hard for me to notice, um, and you know I'd be doing, you know impulsive things and acting out of character, and wouldn't notice it until like a weekend or you know, until I did something that maybe hurt someone's feelings or hurt my own feelings, or you know, yeah, I made a choice that wasn't the most healthy, um, but now you know, in this last year, I was able to start noticing my anemia like hours before it even hit.
Speaker 3:Um, wow, which was? You feel the changes?
Speaker 2:in your yeah, which is true. You know that's something that you don't. That you feel the changes in your, which is true.
Speaker 3:You know that's something that you don't that you feel the changes in your body? Oh, yeah, you do. If you listen, if you sit, if you sit, you listen. Uh, you do, you feel them, um, and I you know, and and not only I'm at the point where I can feel them, but now almost I'd say you know 80% of the time, 90% of the time, I can actually associate it with something, right? So, um, for instance, I my, really my one of my best friends, uh, came to Italy with me, um, and for my birthday, uh, this past year, and we were sitting and I had coffee that morning, and generally I have milk in my coffee, um, and there was no milk, so I do drink black coffee, so I don't know why I did this this morning, but I was like oh, I don't want it to just be black.
Speaker 3:So I'm gonna put a little bit of sugar in it and, um, I don't. I don't really like the taste of sugar in my coffee, especially not there's milk in it, like that's just.
Speaker 3:It tastes like dessert and I don't need that, um, but I did I put sugar in my coffee and I had an empty stomach Right, and within an hour I felt so uncomfortable, I felt like I was crawling out of my skin, like I felt trapped, I was irritable, I was really um, but I immediately knew, like, okay, I did something, something like I'm about to have mania, and I knew that, like, more than likely, it was because of this coffee sugar combination, and I had an empty stomach. So the best thing I could do is fill my stomach with something hearty, uh, that would like help, um, maintain those glucose levels and really like just bring equilibrium to my system, um, and sit for a bit right, um. And you know, another lesson from that was I don't think I really could explain that to my best friend.
Speaker 3:And also it's, it's embarrassing, right, it's embarrassing you don't want to talk about it. Yeah, you don't want to talk about it, and it's like you feel like, oh, a little bit of sugar and coffee, and now you're like not able to be yourself.
Speaker 2:Because people don't understand Until the they say until you walk in a man's shoe, you don't understand.
Speaker 3:And my best friend, like she has her own neurodivergence and she is very understanding. But even then, like even with the people you know and understand it. Just it takes you a bit to admit, and I think mania is my most like my depression I don't really get embarrassed about for some reason I guess, it's like more understood.
Speaker 3:It's more like every you know everyone's depression, whatever um mania, is just like it's. I mean it's characterized in a way that's very uh. Yeah, I mean you're gonna feel a different way about that yeah, people think, oh, that's a crazy person yeah, yeah, you're the one in the middle of the street screaming um, so I, you know. So I was like trying she was, you know, trying to get everywhere on time and we were kind of running late because I was like I need to get food and she's like can we just eat later.
Speaker 3:I was like, no, I need food now and I wasn't really explaining why, um and so then we had to like kind of, you know, debrief that later. And then I had to explain myself and she was like, oh my God, if I knew that, like it would have been very different. I'm like, I know, I'm well aware, I'm sorry, like, but that was hard and again, we were totally fine within that conversation. But you just lessons that that whole day was a big lesson, right Of like.
Speaker 3:Okay, I have to be careful what I put in my body I have to be careful, but also I have to be really willing to be communicative and vulnerable and honest and transparent around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the ones who deserve it, the ones who are one who deserve because you know and that also brings reminders of the point of being observant of who you are around and who you allow into your space. In some instances, if you're in work and you're going through life, you can't always control it- yeah but in, in, in spaces that you can, you have to be mindful of who you have in your, in your, in your periphery yeah, no 100, I have one question a few questions like when you were on medication, how did that make you feel?
Speaker 2:because you, you function, you went, you finish your college degree, you work in, you're doing all of that. Yeah. How did the medication positively impact on you being able to get through that and what were they? Any negative points?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that when you're experiencing symptoms and you don't know what the cause of these symptoms are I mean, if you're feeling sick, whether it's physical or mental, right you want an answer. That's just like human nature, um, mental health.
Speaker 3:It kills you, right, cause very often it takes a long time to get those answers and even then they could be wrong. And then it's trial and error and everything Right. So it's a it's a hard process, um, but getting it right, finally getting that diagnosis I mean I've talked about it with a lot of people it's a good feeling. It's a feeling of I know what's wrong with me, so now there's hope that we can fix it right. So I think getting my diagnosis and starting medication definitely started with that like okay, at least there'll be an answer to my anger, there'll be an answer to my inability to, you know, function during these like large swaths of time where I'm not able to get out of bed or I'm not able to be productive. So I think initially it came with a lot of relief in that way. But then it also comes with what happens when it doesn't work right.
Speaker 3:So what happens when the depression comes back? What happens when the mania comes back? Because did it never was? I was never a hundred percent? Um, and it got bad. You know I was on medication the whole time. You know when, when I got, when I got really bad in May, and before that there are several times it got really bad. Um, I'd broken my ankle. Oh my god. That was a whole time. It was like four months of recovery.
Speaker 3:I had this huge surgery and it, I mean, that was terrible for so many reasons but you know that also, of course, affected my mental health, because I had to rely on other people and I wasn't able to be independent and all these things that really mattered to me, I wasn't able to do what I was unable to get.
Speaker 3:You know, physical exercise and stuff like that, right, or take care of my dog, um, so it, um. There's, there's moments where, right, it wasn't the end, all be all. And I think now, after I mean, I'm almost I'd say I'm about a year now of like basically being fully off it. I think I took my last pill in February, but at that point I'd been titrating off for four months, which I did do. I did like a full four months of titrating off my meds. My meds, um and uh, I never knew I was actually just staying. When I was living in philly this past three months, I was staying with my one of my best friends from college, who I lived with in college, um, and is. We're extremely close. She knows basically everything about me and you know she's seen me and when I was in college I was a straight A student.
Speaker 3:I was the head of, like several clubs. I had three jobs you were high functioning, oh, very high functioning, very high functioning, and she saw me in these last three months again fully unmedicated for now over a year, and she's like I have never seen you this productive wow she was like you. It's like scary, how productive you are. She's like like what would it have been? She's like what would it have been? I was like, well, I would never have been here.
Speaker 3:It had to be a hair out of bed, but you know, and she was like this is kind of crazy. She's like you are really killing it in a way. I've never seen you kill it Um, which meant a lot, because I know that she's seen me in all, all areas you know, and she has seen me be tested a lot in my life. And even she was like okay, there, this is different. Um, and a lot of my friends, you know they have picked up on and I think I see a lot of my growth in what my friends are telling me and how my my family's perceived me Um.
Speaker 3:I do a lot of reflection myself, but I think we're all our own critics Um, and yeah, they're all like wow, like you are handling this really stressful situation with grace and with resilience.
Speaker 3:Um, and I think when I was medicated I don't know, it's like it's this crutch that can go away at any moment. Almost that's how I felt the whole time. I was like, okay, I have this thing, but maybe I'll have to go up, right, maybe have to increase my dose. That was always a thing, right. And then I've had friends and family members who are bipolar and they had to go up to such a degree that it no longer worked and that was terrifying.
Speaker 2:For me, that was a terrifying concept, so when you're on medication, you can get to the point where it no longer works.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then you have to try a different medication, or um, I mean, it's like. I mean not to make a complete comparison, but it's like when you're an alcoholic right and your body gets used to the alcohol.
Speaker 3:So, it takes more and more and more to receive that relaxation or joy or whatever you're getting from it Right, it's like that, um, and so I have had, yeah, like friends and and, um, family members.
Speaker 3:Uh, yeah, get to that point, um, where they have to either change or figure something out. You know, and that always terrified me. The idea of the medication was always there, right, to help me, and the idea that it would no longer be able to service me in that way terrified me. I mean, I spent a lot of my life as suicidal and I it was terrifying to think that one day I wouldn't have the one thing that that was going to keep me from from getting there Right. So, and that's what it was Right, and I think that the medication I again, I was in therapy and that was really important, but I think in some ways it got me through a lot of hard times. A lot of hard times it did, but there was a part that definitely held me back because I wasn't as needing these other other outlets, these other ways to support myself, because I had the medication.
Speaker 2:So I it stunted me, I think, in those areas a little bit so describe some more to me the last year, during the process of weaning yourself from the medication, what were some of the support we know you did? You had the massages and you had this chinese herbs, etc. What were some of the other support systems?
Speaker 3:that you had, so I also one. Okay, one thing I probably don't recommend, but I did it this way for good reason, for myself. I didn't tell anybody except my doctor, um, because, um, you know, it's actually kind of funny. I've made this relation a few times, but there's a show called the gentleman I don't know if you're yes, it's really really good, yes, I love that movie so good.
Speaker 3:And so there's a scene where one there's. It's about a family, right, and they're crazy. It's a crazy family. But the sister comes back and they haven't seen her in a long time. It turns out she's pregnant. She's like fully like eight months pregnant and um, they the brother looks at her oh my god, like why didn't you tell us? And she's like because I want it to be my decision, right, and that was always like a really big like I when I watched that I immediately was like, yes, like same.
Speaker 3:Um, not that I was pregnant, having a pregnancy, but it really felt like that right Cause, when you're, when you're going through mental health illness, when you are neurodivergent and you tell people and you're vulnerable, which you should, it comes with a lot of things, um, and it comes with people being scared for you and with you, um, and it comes with people being scared for you and with you, and it comes with people having a lot of opinions on how you should get through those times and take care of yourself and what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong. And I just didn't. I knew I was being safe because I was going to the doctor. I was reflecting every day, I was writing every day. I was reflecting every day, I was writing every day. One of the things I highly recommend is the actual the iPhone. I'm sure, like there's other functions and different, like Android, situations, but the iPhone has a health app and in the health app there is, you know, a section where you can record your feelings every day.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it actually prompts you.
Speaker 3:Prompts you twice a day. And what I love about that is, it's not a whole thing where you can write a bunch. I think that the max amount of letters is like 20 or something, and so you just pick on a sliding scale how you're feeling and you pick a few words.
Speaker 3:It gives you a few options for like, general words of like, why you're feeling this way, what you're feeling, and then it gives you like a few, like maybe one sentence that you can write in addition, uh, to give it some context. And I was very again, disciplined, very, very disciplined, and did that every single day, um, the minute I came off my meds, because I thought it was incredibly important that if I were going to do this, I needed data, um, and I needed to make sure that it wasn't just and I think, throughout a lot of my journey I was like I think I've been feeling this way. I remember going to therapy all the time being like I think it's been a good week, and they're always like write it down, write it down. I don't know why something wasn't, it wasn't able to do that, the discipline wasn't there um, but for this I was like okay, if I'm doing this, you know why?
Speaker 3:because it was your decision, yeah yeah, yeah and I had it Right and I had to be independent and I had to protect myself and I had to back myself. And I'm a scientist at heart. I started my career in cancer research and I'm like, ok, I need the data, I need to make sure that this experiment, I know what's happening, I know how it's working and, yeah, make sure I was safe, whatever. And you know, and I kept all my my support systems I had friends in school, I would get coffee.
Speaker 2:Oh the more important thing is I was sober. This is the very important part.
Speaker 3:I always forget this part. Yeah, I fully went sober for those three months. Um, so I didn't drink, I didn't smoke, I didn't do anything. Um, because, again, I was trying to be incredibly disciplined in what was going into my body. Um, so, even coffee, I drank matcha mostly for those three months, even though I was in school. Um, I made sure I was being incredibly careful about what was going into my body.
Speaker 2:Um, because I need it again for science once again that that that core nutritional support yeah, oh, I also ate a lot of fish like sardines um, which is good yes, exactly which a therapist did tell me a long time ago and again, I just you know yeah
Speaker 2:I said okay, I was a lot a week ago. I was talking, I had a talk at the diabetes awareness thing, and I focus on alzheimer's and dementia and I'm like people yes, you don't kill yourself like oh, salmon is so expensive, yeah, good old sardines, yeah, it has.
Speaker 3:You need that that that, that, that efficient yeah to to help with your cognitive and if it's helping your cognitive, function it does to help with your cognitive and if it's helping your cognitive function, it does will help with stabilizing absolutely absolutely, you know, and I and you know I didn't have a lot of money right, so I was living off my savings. So that kind of helped in terms of like overeating right, like I wasn't overeating because I couldn't afford to um, which is a beautiful thing, um. And yeah, I was in places like I was traveling a lot because London was really expensive for rent and I was in school, so I was already paying for that and I found out pretty quickly that attendance wasn't mandatory, so I was like okay.
Speaker 3:I'm just going to go somewhere cheaper. So I just started traveling to cheaper places. I went to Greece because I had my sister's best friend lives there, so I was able to stay there for free, um and like, like cheap hostels. And also in Greece there's really good Mediterranean food right, so a lot of so many sardines were eaten in Greece. Uh, I was in Italy, so that was so much fish.
Speaker 3:I ended up going to South Africa for a month, so there was a lot of fish, sushi there, um, and you know I just tried to try to eat local, tried to eat as much fish as possible and so you?
Speaker 2:you ended up in places where you were not eating a lot of processed food.
Speaker 3:No, I tried my best. I tried my best and I cooked and I don't only cook like traditional, like historically. Yeah, I do not cook, um, I don't know why I hated it so much. I did, though, and just cooking, like taking the time to cook like it just slows it down, yeah, and it's cheaper.
Speaker 2:Uh, famously you know what's going in your body? Yeah and and yeah, so once again nutrition, nutrition, nutrition.
Speaker 3:And I never I was so picky about fish before this year Like I never had sushi until I was in South Africa. Like literally, which is a crazy place to try sushi.
Speaker 2:But it was delicious.
Speaker 3:It was really, really good. I highly recommend, highly recommend. People are sleeping on that. Um, and like salmon. I I swore that I would never like salmon. I hated salmon. I remember growing up my best friend, her family, always had salmon for their dinners and they'd invite me for the dinners and I always had to pretend to eat it and, um, like I still talk about that on there, I'm like, ah, but now I love it and now I can cook it and you know, and it's just, I saw you cooking your salmon?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know, you know, and it's just I saw you yeah. Yeah, I know that's a little embarrassing, but yeah, I can usually cook it better than that. Um, and you know I, yeah, I just got really into cooking and eating a lot of fish and just trying my best. You know, I do still write eat at restaurants every once in a while. I treat myself, I still, and I do drink now, right, I have a you know glass of wine here, and there um, you know, up to like three um, but.
Speaker 3:I again, I'm just like super cautious about it, right, I'm not gonna go crazy, because I know I'm gonna feel really bad in the morning and that one you have built your self-awareness yeah you have built your self-awareness, you're building your self-awareness, so you're in tune.
Speaker 2:You're self-aware yeah, people don't understand how much that counts in being self-aware and being truly listening to yourself and and stopping and knowing what. I am very proud of you, thank you. I'm so proud of you. It's, it's um, it's it's it's listen to your journey and I'm sure there's so much we could. I think we could talk for the entire afternoon but, um, one of the things as it relates to mental health that I discussed recently. The episode that I recorded that hasn't been released was discussing someone who used um mushroom ios treatment, and this was not the first time I've discussed it with someone, but her conversation really opened my eyes to the possibilities of it for people you know for for treating treating situation, because traditionally I've not been that person. I'm the person who advocate cannabis and I still advocate cannabis.
Speaker 2:I'm currently um been writing a paper on cannabis medicine. You know with yeah to cornell that you know, when I do serious stuff I do it with cornell. Yeah, um, and it's well overdue, but that's because I've just been busy with everything. But you know, have you known anyone or have you tried any of these and did it have any effect, positively or negatively? And you know, yeah.
Speaker 3:Great question.
Speaker 1:I have.
Speaker 3:I am from Brooklyn, new York, so cannabis Um yeah, I mean it has I smoked weed for most of my life. Um, I think it is incredibly helpful in a lot of ways. Um, I think you know, um I think you know small doses um in like treatment settings, in terms of like you're hanging out, you're relaxed, um you're not, you know, at the amusement park.
Speaker 3:Yeah right, um, you're not at the movie theater, like you're not just doing it, whatever, and I think that for a large part of my life, I probably, um, didn't need to be doing it as much as I was doing it and because you were on medication.
Speaker 3:Yeah, also that also that, um, and I actually because I moved abroad, right You're, I couldn't get it yeah, um, so, and I remember, you know, my entire life I was like I'm not addicted and I never. I don't again. I don't really think it actually can be chemically addictive, but you know, I definitely think in in retrospect I was dependent on it in a lot of ways and like not that I did it every day necessarily, but I needed to know I could. So, like I needed it in the house, like I needed it.
Speaker 2:And again, you know why it?
Speaker 3:it calmed your mania, yeah exactly and and my friend of my depression. It just like gave me this little bit of out of body, in the sense that like I wasn't in my depressed body Right, like I was able to be lifted a little bit. It's also a social thing. I did do it alone, but very often it was with friends. Again in New York, it's very much part of the culture and, again, I think there are so many good things about weed.
Speaker 3:I also know that a huge part of my journey was not smoking it every day yeah, all things in moderation yes, all things in moderation. It's crazy now because I have smoked it since um and it's like like my, tolerance is like nothing uh it's like I it just because you've been off it, yeah, for a while and your body?
Speaker 2:has cursed it so now, when you do indulge, you don't want, you don't need much. And two, because you're now self-aware and your physical body and your mental body is in tune with what is it? You've set the intention for your life. You've set an intention and your body and your mind is flowing with that intention so it stops you from going overboard absolutely.
Speaker 3:and you know, what I always found when I was on the medication was I found that I felt like you know that uh, character of like the seal. I mean he's like carrying all the plates, all the plates are turning and he has a ball on his nose and I often felt I needed to add to that to feel at equilibrium, which was always a weird experience and hard to explain, but it was like drinking or smoking, like adding to. It's like when something's kind of off and you just flick it Right and then all of a sudden it's kind of, you know, rotating and sink Like. I was never calm, but I wanted to at least not be like shaking, I wanted to be like spiraling correctly in uniform, which was all I could hope for, because I had so many things going on inside of me.
Speaker 3:That's all I could hope for Right, um and I think you're right is now that I am so centered and now that I am, from all of the deep uh work I did with my healer, but also from the years and years and years it took to get here, um, and from being purged of so much of the shit that was in my body. Um, now, if I drink, if I smoke, it's like it's the thing putting me off which is like I have never had before, and so now it's like, oh, I don't really like that actually, um, yeah, that's you know, the um, the, the, the episode I'm gonna, that's pre-recorded.
Speaker 2:That's what she said. She said after her first treatment, she went to four years, yeah, of of this to get she was, you know depression. She was an alcoholic, she smoked, you name it. She was, yeah, you name it, and she lived in hollywood. So it was, yeah, she said it's not. She said it was cold turkey with the drinking, but it wasn't cold turkey in the sense that she stopped drinking, but the first drink she had, instead of her body going, yes, her body went no bitch, no yeah yeah, literally, and but even with that, she said it still took her eight months before she took her last drink because she was an alcoholic for so long.
Speaker 2:But it took even when she she her body was saying no she was like this tastes horrible.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she still went on for another eight months, yeah, and I feel that because, like, I still smoke right and again, um, I think I smoked, you know, like once a month for the past three months or something right, and those three to four times right, I, I, I didn't like it really, um, but I kept doing it Right. And then I was like, but maybe it will feel good this time, and you're searching for that Right Cause you're like, oh, but it used to feel so good and it used to be so relaxing and it used to be everything I needed.
Speaker 3:And then you're like, oh, it's not there anymore and it sucks Right, right so you keep searching for it and I think, just continuing to do the reflection of like was this fun? Was this what I wanted? Was this what I expected? And now, like I don't think there's a world in which I will never, I don't think I need to never smoke weed again as of right now, but that's it.
Speaker 2:Like you really, you get back into it and it's not the same thing because, again, your chemistry has changed your body has changed, they're all drugs yeah you, you, it doesn't work for everyone for some people the use of cannabis as a as a mental health um to assist people coping with mental health. It's a tool that's very valuable, yeah, but also it's not for everyone. No, it's. It's. It's what we call bio individual. Yeah, exactly. Everyone is different, yeah, so what works for so?
Speaker 2:your body chemistry, because during those months I think you were you were being exposed in your body to other alternative music, the chinese medicine and the massages, and that's a whole ball game there, oh yeah so your system got rewired, oh yeah with that. And so when you attempted to introduce what used to work, yeah, your body was like nah, yeah, you don't need that anymore.
Speaker 3:In the meantime, there's someone else that the cannabis can be the perfect solution and again, I think it was a was a great tool during those years where I needed that or whatever.
Speaker 3:At the time I think I didn't need medication and I think that it was a good way to off again, just put to make it all kind of work again from time to time. I think, definitely not the way I needed it all the time. But, um, I mean it was a coping mechanism and sometimes you do need to cope a little bit. I mean, if you don't have all the tools that you need and you're not at the place that you need to be at, coping is okay. Coping can be a lifeline, yeah, um, but doing the reflection to know when it's coping and then the reflection to be like do I need this right now or do I need to do the work right now? Yeah, right, um, and I think everyone should get to the point where, hopefully, they're doing the work most of the time, but we can all cope a little bit here and there, and that that's life and that's how we get through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3:That's it, yeah, get through it yeah with kindness, yeah with kindness and kindness to yourself. I think like the main thing that I took away from this experience was a very scary revelation that I had never loved myself like for my entire life until this past year um and, yeah, like I now very much love myself um and I love my life and although it's sometimes really hard, and although sometimes, uh, the environment is not one that you can choose, but it's one that's, uh, you know, created around you. Um, that's okay, uh, and I feel very like trust myself.
Speaker 3:I trust that I will remain resilient that I will do the work um and that I will never lose that love again boom, drop, mic, mic, drop, boom, boom, boom.
Speaker 2:It is, uh, this has been so good and I'm off here. We will be continuing our talk and everything, but I think that's all we have for you. I hope the conversation has been helpful. I hope you've learned something from it. I know I have, not just as an individual, but as a practitioner in the work that I do with my clients and um, so we are going to sign off with a reminder to take care of yourself today.
Speaker 1:I hope that you are loving yourself today. You deserve the love you, so give away. I hope you know that you're beautiful today. I am sending love to you from my heart. I hope you know that you are a work of art when it feels like your world is falling apart. Please remember that you are never alone exactly we are never alone.
Speaker 2:As much as we think it sometimes, we are never alone. I personally got reminded of that yesterday you were never alone yeah, I was like, oh my gosh, until next time.
Speaker 2:This is Chef Lorraine signing off, and remember you can find me at the elephant rooms in TCI if you're visiting, I do see. That's where I practice and it's a practice that covers all issues related to mental health, physical, you know, mental health, neurodiversity, um, nutrition, wellness, and there's someone there with the tools that is perfect for your situation, for you, each by your individual need. So go ahead and live your idle life until next time when we continue on this personal journey that we're all on bye.
